Addressing Violence in the Family

VOICEOVER
Welcome to Melbourne University Up Close, a fortnightly podcast of research, personalities, and cultural offerings of the University of Melbourne, Australia. Up Close is available on the web at upclose.unimelb.edu.au.  That’s upclose.u-n-i-m-e-l-b.edu.au.

JACKY ANGUS
Hello, and welcome to Up Close, coming to you from the University of Melbourne, Australia.  I’m Jacky Angus. In this episode of Up Close, we examine a complex social problem, that of family violence, particularly it’s impact on children.  While family violence is evident in almost all societies, and is sometimes assume to be a natural part of life, such violence is now increasingly seen as behaviour that governments should address and punish, particularly where children are involved.  However, state intervention brings with it other concerns, for example, ensuring that the requirements of the law don’t intimidate the very people that need help.  And how effective is intervention in undoing the harm done, or preventing further violence? 
To throw light on this complex problem of family violence, my guest today is professor Cathy Humphreys, the Alfred Felton Chair of Child and Family Welfare in the School of Social Work at the University of Melbourne, Australia.  Professor Humphreys has herself spent many years as a grass roots social worker in Australia’s and the UK, and her books are recognised as essential manuals in the field.  Cathy Humphreys considers that domestic violence is escalating as a serious social problems in Australia.  Certainly, statistics over the last decade support her claim.  In 1996, 23 percent of Australian women reported that they had experienced domestic violence in the home.  By 2004, in a similar study that surveyed over 6000 women, that figure was 34 percent.
Professor Humphreys, to begin with, can I ask you a very basic question?  How does one distinguish between inappropriate aggression in family life and violent acts which cause real harm to relationships, and to children?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Well Jacky, I think that’s a particularly interesting question, because it’s one that gets asked a lot.  I think that, in fact, no children like to hear their parents fighting and arguing, and any level of fighting and argument is distressing for at least a significant group of children.  So, let’s say it’s not a preferred behaviour.  On the other hand, that’s behaviour that does happen in just about every household in Australia, and, not to mention, households elsewhere.  But where we’re talking about domestic violence, sometimes called family violence, sometimes called intimate partner violence, then we’re looking at a significant escalation of behaviours, not all of which are bout physical violence.  In fact, physical violence does not need to be used very often for a climate of fear and for abuse to be part of that household, and these are the sort of situation in which it is very difficult for children to thrive, and at different ages and stages, there’ll be different effect on children.

JACKY ANGUS
How cab we now that family violence is actually in increasing in Australia, and isn’t rather an increase in reporting?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Well, I think that’s hard to decide, and I think the jury is out on that.  One of the things that you want to see in sometimes is an increase in figures, because it will often say, oh, we’re able to name this in out society, we’re able to come out, a secret aspect of community life, of family life, is now being seen as a public issue, and that’s a good thing when we see an increase in the figures, particularly increase in reporting figures to the police, because it does suggest that there’s an increase in trust in the police the police response.  And in communities where there’s very little trust in the State and in the police, then it will be that a rise in reporting will indicate a rise in trust, rather t5ahn an increase, or an escalation in violence.

JACKY ANGUS
I’m thinking about family violence in other societies; the perception of it, is that changing, do you think?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
I think the ability to name it is changing.  Not always in the right direction, but in some areas, you’re getting an increase in secrecy, you’re getting an increase in some societies where they are saying that women need to be more secluded, they need to be more hidden away, that in fact any ability of women to be able to talk about the abuse that they’re experiencing can be diminished.  But generally speaking, we are seeing that there’s a growth in the human right issues for both women and children which say, this is not acceptable, we won’t, we don’t want to see this in our society, and we want women and children to be able to speak out, and to name the issues of abuse.  And fro a certain extent, there’ll be men that will be able to speak out about this as well.

JACKY ANGUS
And what are the factors there?  I’m thinking thee must be some triggers in different cultures where there’s been a tradition of violence, or certainly aggression towards women, what are the triggers that still, you know, trigger the violence, if you like?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Sometimes you see that the less power that men have, so that the more disempowered that they might feel, particularly if you’re looming at refugee populations, where there is very little access to power for anyone in that society.  Sometimes, the only power that is able to be shown by some men is power over the women and children in their families, and that power can sometimes be abused.

JACKY ANGUS
I know you’ve had experience in working in the UK.  Have you met that problem there, where there are large numbers of ethnic communities that do feel a bit marginalised?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Certainly you do see high levels of violence against women, but you also see a great closing down of the community, and an inability to be able to name the violence and the abuse, because it seemed to dishonour the whole community, not just the women within it.

JACKY ANGUS
And Cathy, what are the other social problems that tend to be linked with family violence, that indirectly impact on children, the social aspects?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
I think that where you have family violence, it’s often more likely to occur where there’s poverty.  Now, sometimes that’s because women who are in quite good situations, middles class women, professional women, once they have to leave the relationship and become single parents, they often lose their jobs and are thrust into poverty, so that it’s not necessarily a casual relationship, but you are more likely to see that where there are issues of overtly that you see more violence.  There’s also much more difficult for women o get away from the violence when they’re entrapped in poverty as well, so that’s an issue.  The other coexisting problems of course are this long standing relationship with substance use, with the abuse of, or problematic alcohol and drug abuse.  Now, that’s not to say that those issues are casual, that in fact there are plenty of people who drink that never beat up their wives, but it’s also seen that there’s an excuse in many societies that if you’re drunk, then you’re allowed to do whatever you like, and that certainly some groups of men will drink to be able to abuse, rather than knowing that they can control that.

JACKY ANGUS
And I suppose that applies also to mental health and disability?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Certainly, so that particularly for women where you’re seeing mental health issues, what these women talk about is symptoms of abuse, that in fact, if you’re being abused, if you’re beaten up, if you’re being sexually assaulted, if you’re life is constrained, you’re not allowed to go out, if you’re being verbally criticised, abused continuously, then actually you do become depressed, it’s a natural response to an abnormal situation.  Similarly, that you are much more likely to have suicidal thoughts, sometimes acting on those, or that you have situations of trauma, post-traumatic stress disorder, and high levels of anxiety.

JACKY ANGUS
Now, in terms of services for people in these situations, obviously, with State intervention and agency intervention, it’s very hard or the service in fact to provide the appropriate help.  I’m just wondering how you separate out the differences between socio-economic disadvantage from illness, from vulnerable populations, I mean, how does one deal with in a situation of the services providing the right service, and yet coordinating with each other.  It’s very complex, isn’t it? 

CATHY HUMPHREYS
It’s a very complicated issue, and I think that it’s where we do need professionals that are trained across the board so that where ever a woman who’s being abused, or wherever a child who is living in situation of family violence walks into an agency, whether that be an agency providing mental health services, whether it’s the local GP, whether it’s the local drug and alcohol service, that in fact they need to be able to respond to not only their primary issue that they may have gone to the GP for, but also to the issues domestic violence, so that wherever people walk in the door, there’s a need to be able to understand the multi-problem nature of the issue.

JACKY ANGUS
This is Up Close, coming to you from University of Melbourne, Australia. You’re listening to Professor Cathy Humphreys discussing family violence with me, Jacky Angus.  Cathy, when does violence become criminal, that is, when do the police, get involved?  I’m thinking of the whole business of police involvement and courts and accountability of, you know, of the perpetrator to the law.  This sounds very complicated.  How does that work, how do children get protected in that context?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Well, this is a situation where for the most part, women will use their informal networks until they’re exhausted, so that she will go first to her family and to her friends and to the local GP, what I would call the informal system.  That means the network of community support.  It’s only when things have escalated, usually, when women will then call the police, and often they will call the police when they’re afraid for their lives, or for their children’s lives, so that often the court or the police is where they’re seeing an escalation of abuse in ways that make them feel extremely fearful.  Sometimes, there may not be evidence of direct abuse.  Women may be calling before they’ve been hit, but when they’ve been threatened.  That’s often then very difficult for the police to be able to say, oh, this is a crime.

JACIE ANGUS
Because there’s no evidence.

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Because in fact, it may have been a preventative move on the woman’s part, when she knew that things were escalating and getting out of control.  There are, of course, then other situations when the evidence is much more available, and then it’s where the shift and change in policing practice to collect the evidence, to take this seriously and not say, oh, this is just another domestic, is absolutely critical, and where training of police and the support if codes of practice and guidance in this area are absolutely critical in making a difference.

JACKY ANGUS
Is there a sort of universal understanding an acceptance of the concept of removing the child from the family.  I imagine that this is really a traumatic situation for everybody. Is that really a helpful thing?  I realise it’s got to be done in extreme cases, but what’s your feeling there, and what’s the research saying?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
The research from the child protection point of view is to try and get the removal of the perpetrator, rather than the removal of the women and children from the home.  However, that’s a very big ask. That for centuries, women and children have always fled violence, so that to allow women and children to be able to stay in their homes and get the perpetrator removed is a significant shift in practice, and a very difficult shift to achieve, but we’re tying to keep increasing numbers of women with good policing in their homes.

JACKY ANGUS
And persuasive refuges, is that a common practice now, or is that ceased to be a common practice?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
No, the refuse is an essential part of any domestic violence strategy, and we need more refuges…

JACKY ANGUS
But that’s for the woman, isn’t it, rather than for the perpetrator?  I’m thinking if you have a perpetrator, I mean, that presumes that you can remove that person and, presumably, lock them up for a while in a police station.  Is that practical?  I mean, how is the police force dealing with that?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
The police force now has holding ploughs, they’re less developed in some parts of Australia than they are in some parts of Europe, so that in Austria of instance, they have a very strong piece of legislation where the police act to remove the perpetrator in the first instance, and they can be removed and held out of the home for more than 10 days, and Germany has a similar piece of legislation.

JACKY ANGUS
If we actually look at the child now, if we consider the child, because I know you’re very interesting in the mother-child relationship?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Yes.

JACKY ANGUS
If we consider a child that’s in, you know, been traumatised by the witnessing, or being involved with violence, or being in fact the object of violence, taken into care in an extreme situation, what sort soft research suggest that there are better ways of dealing with that?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
The last resort is to take children into care in Australia, but we certainly are seeing a significant increase in Australia in the number of children being taken into care, and that’s often associated with a combination of domestic violence and substance use.  There are some there are some other issues often too around mental health problems.  So, there is quite a lot of co-existence of these issues.  It’s a last resort, and you certainly don’t want to go down that route unless you absolutely have to, and think that the child’s safety and well-being cannot be supported in the community.

JACKY ANGUS
And what about the support for the family unit as such.  Presumably, there are situations where dreadful things have happened, but there is an attempt to maintain that marriage, and so there’s a need for family counselling - I’m just thinking of family court – are those therapeutic attempts to maintain the family, are they in place?  Are there enough of those?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
It’s where early intervention is really, really important, because for the most part, where you’ve got violence happening, you’ve got such an unequal relationship that it’s not ever recommended that you do family counselling, because it was seen to be quite dangerous for women.  They’re not in a situation where they’re able to trust the situation enough so that if she says something in counselling about the violence or the abuse she’s experiencing, then that may lead to more punishment later, ad so it can escalate, so that’s it’s very problematic.  You’re trying to get in earlier than that, where in fact counselling could be appropriate where you’ve got conflict, but with out necessarily violence and abuse happening.  For the most part, you do need men referred to men’s behaviour change programs and for women to be having individual counselling, or counselling that supports a relationship with their children.

JACKY ANGUS
Well Cathy, are there any positive developments in the field?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
I think that we’re seeing a much greater use of prevention programs, so that in Victoria, Australia, at the moment, there’s quite a significant increase in the funding for prevention programs.  This means both community prevention programs with advertising and alerting people to the issues of domestic violence, as well as we’re looking at how to develop programs in schools, the white ribbon campaign is a very important, it’s an international project which…

JACKY ANGUS
What’s that involve?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
The white ribbon day is a way, internationally, of supporting and making public issues of domestic violence, and the thing that’s a bit different about the white ribbon campaign is that it was initially being led by men who said, actually, we as men need to take a stand to say that violence against women is not acceptable.  We’re also seeing much more use of the CEDAW convention my women all over the world.

JACKY ANGUS
What was the CEDAW convention?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
The CEDAW convention is the convention on the elimination of discrimination against women, and that it was being actively used in Vanuatu, in the Maldives, in other part so the world, particularly India and South Africa. And so, it was seen as positive way of being able to engage the state in the issues of violence against women. I think too that we are seeing women organising all over the world, extremely brave women in Iraq and in Iran, in India, where they’re actively and creatively and bravely setting the scene, and taking a stand against the violence which many of them are experiencing.

JACKY ANGUS
So, what are the current focus of you own research?  I think you were talking about the mother-child relationship particularly?

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Well, there’s a strand of my work which is very involved with thinking about the issues for children where there is domestic violence.  A piece of research that I did in the UK was particularly looking at how can we intervene positively in the aftermath of violence, because there’s been damage done to the relationship between women and children by the violence, and we need to not say, oh, she’s out of the violence, and therefore all is well.  In fact, that’s the time to come in and to try and do positive things with women and children together, and sometimes that ‘s just to do with the fact that when the woman is being abused, she may find that she’s so busy coping with her own abuse and her own survival, that issues for children can have been neglected at times.  Other times, the man has very actively undermined the relationship between the women and children, encouraging, particularly young boys, in actively criticising or abusing their mothers, and we’re now seeing that as quite a serious social problem that’s now coming to light, where we’re trying to develop positive programs which provide women and children with the necessary skills and interventions and groups to try and build healthy relationships in the aftermath of violence.

JACKY ANGUS
Well, thank you very much Cathy Humphreys into a very complex problem, and best wishes with your research.

CATHY HUMPHREYS
Thank you very much Jacky, it’s a pleasure to be able to talk with you about it.

JACKY ANGUS
You’ve been listening to Up Close, from the university of Melbourne, Australia.  Relevant links, a full transcript, and more information on this episode can found on our website, at upclose.unimelb.edu.au.  You may leave a comment on any episode of up close by clicking at the link at the bottom of the page.  Melbourne University Up Close is brought to you by the marketing and communications division, in association with Asia Institute at the university of Melbourne, Australia.  Up Close is created and produced by Erik van Bemmel and Kelvin Param.  Our audio recorder in Craig McArthur, and our theme music by Sergio Ercole.  I’m Jacky Angus.  Until next time, thank you for joining us on up close, goodbye.

VOICEOVER
You’ve been listening to Melbourne University Up Close, a fortnightly podcast of research, personalities and cultural offerings of the University of Melbourne, Australia.  Up Close is available on the web at upclose.unimelb.edu.au, that’s upclose.u-n-i-m-e-l-b.edu.au.  Copyright 2008 University of Melbourne.